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(FranchisePick.Com) This is the latest in a series of guest posts on the Mary Kay cosmetics business opportunity.
This post is from SCAM, who blogs at Scam Types.
Are you a Mary Kay consultant? Ex-consultant? Customer? Ex-customer?
Please share you experience and opinion with a comment at the bottom of this post.
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Is Mary Kay Cosmetics a Scam Club for Girls? by Scam
‘You may think I’m foolish
For the foolish things I do..’
“Pink Cadillac” – Bruce Springsteen
Was the Boss singing about Mary Kay, a multi level marketing cosmetics organisation?
Of course not, but his lyrics may have some meaning to their business… let’s find out..
Mary Kay Ash
Mary Kay Ash was a mother of three in the 1930s. Her and her then husband often found it hard to make ends meet and so Mary began selling books to supplement the household income. During her first 6 months, she sold a remarkable $25,000 worth of books!
In 1938 she divorced her cheating husband and joined Stanley Home Products, selling via home parties. She was successful for 25 years and enjoy selling. However, she felt that women were underpaid compared with their male counterparts. She also felt that her good ideas for the company were ignored and rebuked, purely because she was a woman.
After retiring, she began to write books for women, designed to aid them with the challenges they faced in the workplace. Compiling 2 lists, one detailing the positives about companies and the other detailing the negatives, Mary Kay Ash began to realise that she was listing the qualities that could be used to form what she thought would be the perfect company.
With her life savings of a few thousand dollars, she began Mary Kay Cosmetics 13th September, 1963. With the help of one of her children, Richard Rogers, she was able to build the company up to the point of having over half a million independent beauty consultants who host parties and give demonstrations as they sell the company’s perfumes and cosmetics. In 1996 retail sales hit the $2 billion mark.
MLM
Mary Kay Cosmetics sells it’s products through multi level marketing, much like Arbonne, for example. As I looked for figures to determine how much product is sold by each consultant on average I discovered that Mary Kay Cosmetics is extremely secretive about such information. I would have to wonder why.
Multi level marketing involves selling products primarily, often with bonuses or commissions for recruiting new distributors, or consultants. On the other hand, a pyramid scheme, which is illegal, puts most or all of it’s emphasis on earning through recruitment, with any product sales being very much secondary to that cause.
Which category does Mary Kay Cosmetics fall into?
If you check out their website then you will see that the company is most definitely selling products, but are they viable?
The detractors of Mary Kay will highlight that they are not very competitvely priced. Not being the type of man who wears cosmetics, I couldn’t possibly have an opinion on that – perhaps some of the ladies could comment on price competitiveness? If products really are overpriced then that may push people into having to recruit to make any money, whether by accident or by design.
The majority of comments I found across the internet suggest that most Mary Kay consultants are not making much money – in fact several have lost money and those in profit are making only a couple of hundred dollars per year. Of course, these figures are subjective and open to interpretation – low earnings could be deliberately misquoted by those who are anti-MLM or disgruntled ex-consultants. Likewise, business takes hard work and it could, perhaps, be argued that the low earners don’t have what it takes.
Other criticisms include the fact that Mary Kay pushes an almost cult like belief that negativity has no place in their organisation. This means that only positive comments are given any credence and any consultant who highlights their failings risks being ostracised.
Also, at the time of recruitment, there are many stories of new consultants being required to but inventory. Of course, this sounds perfectly legitimate – how else do you sell cosmetics if you don’t have any stock? However, there are a lot of reports of pushy directors who try and get their new recruits to but the largest package of stock ($4,800 worth) rather than the minimum $600 package. Presumably, this is because they then earn a much bigger commission cheque?
There are also comments about how moving up the ladder within Mary Kay is dependent upon sales volumes. Again, this isn’t strange – the more successful people always rise to the top in any business venture. However, there are reports about people buying huge amounts of inventory, solely to gain promotion. Doesn’t sound quite right does it??
Pink Cadillacs
Some time ago, Mary Kay hit upon the idea of leasing cars to it’s consultants and directors. A great piece of marketing for the company.. who does it really benefit?
From what I can make out the consultant, who is at the low end of the scale, receives a car as long as they continue to generate $4,500 per month in revenue. Should they ever fall below this level then they will suddenly start getting billed $375 per month until they get their revenue back up to the prescribed level again.
Considering all the conditions, qualifying amounts and provisos of first obtaining the car, it can be said that a mere consultant will need to have generated $130,000 in revenue before being able to drive their red Pontiac Vibe.
That figure increases to $576,000 for a director who wishes to have the pink Cadillac.
I guess that means you have to work pretty damn hard to get to lease a car for ‘nothing’.
Conclusion
As with most of these MLM companies that I look into, nothing is ever crystal clear (in most cases).
I expect any comments below to be split between those who have been burned by Mary Kay and those who are reputedly making a good income from it.
It would be fair to say that those pushing recruitment ahead of retail sales may be individuals looking to make money rather then people following any company guidelines.
I personally would stop short of calling Mary Kay Cosmetics an illegal pyramid scheme, however, I believe they are an MLM through which hard working women are likely to see very little return on their investment.
That’s my opinion… what do you think?
Verdict : Probably not a scam, but probably not a winner either.
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Scam is a retail manager from London. England. After a good friend of his fell prey to an email scam he decided to write about internet safety and security on his blog, Scam Types.
If anyone would like to print a rebuttal or offer an alternative article, please email Sean at info[at]ideafarm.net
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Franchisees, customers & experts vote for their favorite new franchises at Top New Franchise: Who’s hot. Who’s not.
OK it just like having your own store you do have supply at your store don’t you?well its just the samething.and you work your own hours as much or less that you want to make.
atleast you get to try the products for free and you can crearly see the product speaks for it’s self…..it’s one line of skin care that really does work and isn’t a scam for your money alittle goes a long way.
it would be different if it took your money and it didn’t work .
I can go in walmart buy makeup and it doesn’t match,or I don’t like it then I’m stuck with it MK guarentees satifaction what more could you ask for!
Mary kay sucks!! Stay away from all consultants who are “serious” about their business because they will only want you to join under them so that they can make money for themselves.
Tax time sucks because Mary Kay expects you to do it all on your own and you make no profit and they know this, but they still continue to expect you to buy their product because it makes THEM money. And not only that but you get quarterly prizes for buying so much inventory and whether it sits on your shelf at home, or you actually find someone who is willing to buy the product, they will still “reward” you. Too bad the reward is something that could easily be bought for 40 bucks at Sears, but with a Mary Kay logo and pink.
The car is a rip off because with so much time spent in earning it, I have noticed that my consultant who wants to be director has pretty much brainwashed herself trying to earn it.
She has pictures up in the bathroom, her kitchen, her office of her standing next to the Mary Kay car just to motivate herself to earn it.
I seriously think that she would be much better off just buying the car herself, but she is attracted to the women who are so “positive” and like you said, anything “negative” is viewed as a curse. But the women who MK consultants consider “negative” are just REALISTIC.
I honestly believe that anyone looking into getting into Mary Kay will see that it is NOT all that it is cracked up to be and if you have any questions please ask a friend or family member who has done MK and they will tell you the chances of suceeding are slim to none and you have to really be brainwashed with MK propaganda in order to reach the level of success MK always tries to promote at sales meetings and conventions.
I am a Mary Kay consultant for 8 years. I have four children and we have a farm. I love my business. I have 80 customers and 3 consultants. Just this week alone I sold $350 just answering the phone!! All women who were out of mk and needed more. It is a great business, however, you can not just order inventory and sit on your but. You have to get out there and hold appoitments!! It is a great venture for someone who is not afraid to work. It is not a work hard business(like farming) it is working smart,(holding parties, telling everyone you know about mk, handing out samples etc) I would recommend this business to everyone.
My wife is a consultant and this is her second time signing up.
Let’s look at the real world.
1) Most people do not know how to run a business, these people will not make lots of money, it takes hard work to make lots of sales
2) before 2009 people could easily take the ‘suggestion’ that they should buy a ‘full store’ and there are too many people out there who would push the new consultant to do that. Now Credit is harder to get so I hope that will happen less
3) People are used to punching a clock. When they are their own boss they do not realize they have to work 3x as hard to get results
My wife got the starter kit and they did small orders as she has sales she has built up slowly (2 years) and is doing well.
Why do (most?) people ‘fail’ to see Big Profit in MK?
Because most people fail in running their own business.
If you work at it and ask for help from the directors above you and
take their advice you can succeed but you have to Work, assuming it is a Job!
See also
http://www.taxgirl.com/rethink-pink-mary-kay-may-be-a-hobby-not-a-business/
Tom
Hi there!
I’m a new Mary Kay consultant, and I am truly loving it right now. You are right that the consultant turnover rate may not be ideal, but that’s because it takes a certain type of person to be able to sell. Not everyone would be comfortable working in car sales and guaranteed nothing more than a commission on sales and no hourly wage for putting in 60 hours a week. The people that are comfortable taking that risk are the people who have proven sales skills and abilities. Most consultants that don’t make it to their 6-month mark are people who are excited about signing up and being able to buy their own makeup for 50% off of retail, and they’ll get their immediate family and friends to buy some too, but after that, they have gotten what they wanted from it and they move on.
I don’t criticize those people, it may just not have been for them. It’s convenient for me right now because I’m a stay at home mom who’s attending school in the fall and I have my summer free to gain a loyal customer base, and then when I’m in school and have less time to spend on my business, I can count on the sales from my loyal customer’s reorders.
Inventory is not required for new consultants to purchase, and while I see your point that some Directors may push for them to buy the largest inventory option because it does increase their commission, most Directors are not made of greed. They don’t have to be, they make fine income getting to the point of a Director anyway. Also, they want you to LOVE the company and be passionate about working for the company, so they aren’t going to push you to charge $3,600 worth of inventory to your credit card and then have you regret that decision the next month when your bill arrives and have you doubting the business.
The reason behind offering the inventory packages as an OPTION, not a REQUIREMENT, is that Mary Kay Ash found that when she didn’t have her own inventory in stock and was simply taking orders for the products, a week later when the product arrived and she went to deliver it, customers were no longer excited about the products they tried at their free makeover or demonstration, and because Mary Kay offers a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee, they weren’t obligated to still pay for the products upon delivery. She needed to devise a plan to have the products in hand and ready to give to the customer the second they tried it on and loved it and made the decision to buy it. It also saves us consultants time, because we don’t have to spend a great deal of time creating a supply order and submitting it and then waiting for the products to be delivered to our homes and then have us separate them and spend our own money to ship and deliver them, because Mary Kay also prides itself on Free Shipping and Delivery.
Now, I will agree that Mary Kay products are not as competitively priced as a couple other companies out there are a great deal of companies out there who are more expensive than Mary Kay, and their products are not as proven to deliver results as Mary Kay, and they do not offer free shipping and delivery or 100% Satisfaction Guarantee. As for the companies that charge less than Mary Kay, they may get more initial customers because of the lower price of the products, but the sales consultants have a lower turnover rate because, at least in a lot of cases, they find that they don’t make as much money as they were led to believe. Mary Kay offers the highest commission to it’s consultants more than any other company, which inspires and motivates us to be outgoing and constantly finding new customers.
As for the strategy to get consultants to recruit new consultants, that certainly is an option for us to earn money, but we aren’t out there recruiting just anyone. To give you an example, it costs $100 to order your starter kit and become a Mary Kay consultant, and the product package you get is worth well over $400. I could go out and easily get $100 from everyone I meet and sign them up as a consultant by promising them a $400 retail value starter kit, and allowing them to purchase any additional products at 50% off, but we don’t do that, because we want to recruit the people who will excel in this business. I have a great deal of friends, many of whom live in other areas and would be ideal for me to sign up as consultants for that reason because they can reach the customers I would never meet, but I know they don’t have the desire and motivation to be a successful salesperson and grow with the company, so I don’t waste my time or their money by trying to recruit them.
I have no complaints about Mary Kay products or the way it conducts it’s business. We have great Sales Directors who would never lead us in the wrong direction and are there for tips and strategy advice every step of the way. They go above and beyond their job descriptions, making themselves available to dozens of consultants who work under them in their areas, and they stretch their time to be at every meeting and class and party they can possibly be at so they can constantly coach and teach and offer constructive tips for us to improve our businesses.
Hope that cleared up a little bit for you.
I have admire your unselfishness in taking the time to make this web site.
I have to acknowledge this story is distasteful. Nonetheless, it is a gift from the patron saint of metaphors! Seriously, those interested in exposing Mary Kay Cosmetics for what it is could not have dreamed-up a better illustration. If one were tasked to write a fictional piece capturing the ridiculousness of the MK MLM, this little vignette would cover it!
Mary Kay Cosmetics Corporation has been
s#!ting on women’s porches for years, and years…
What is up with Mary Kay ladies defecating on people’s front porches?
Is this some new sales technique? How much do I have to buy to keep them off my porch?
Is there nothing some people won’t do to land a pink car?
http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2009/jan/08/visitor-defecates-fort-pierce-womans-porch/
Good luck to ya Sharon. I hope you’re able to avoid the negative consequences stemming from participation in this MLM as experienced by multitudes of women and their families.
I’ve been a Mary Consultant for 11 years and have built a large and loyal customer base. I stock a full inventory so why should anyone go to the mall when they can shop with me. The beauty of the Mary Kay biz is that it is mine and I am the CEO. There are no quotas and no territories. I can work when I want to work or not work when I don’t want to. I can build a team if I want to but I’d rather have the customers. I rarely have parties and prefer selling one-on-one. What store or business, for that matter, enjoys a 50% profit with almost no overhead?
So, let the critics amuse themselves. They have it all wrong.
MK4 Me–you are straight up brainwashed!! That is exactly the words that they teach directors to tell new consultants to get them to order products!!! “Do you want to start a business with only working 2 hrs?? BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!
She clearly does Mary Kay now and has no idea that all of her friends have proabably spammed her from e-mail and cannot stand to get her e-mails, phone calls, see her in public, and hear her crock of crap about how “wonderful” her fake life really is!! Trust me I was there–which is why I know that you are the worst type of person to run into at the store. I would imagine that you “warm chatter” with every girl in the store, you probably have a gym membership just to me people and tell them all about the “opportunity they are missing by having a JOB”, and you probably spout out without even thinking–God 1st, Family 2nd and Mary Kay 3rd–PHONY!!!
As an additional disclaimer- I do realize that my math doesn’t account for every possibility and aspect. It’s the concept that bothers me and seems deceptive to me.
As far as a MK franchise goes, I just don’t think so. No expert here but the ftc is: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/invest/inv07.shtm
And as far as calculating the time invested in the business (when figuring up your ROI), I’d just like to say that I imagine most people waste an awful lot of time running around doing useless things like hitting Wal-Mart to quench the urge to buy and chatting it up at the local coffee shop.
I was in trucking for the last 13 years and if you ask a truck driver how much they made on the hour (talking over the road trucker- not a local guy who is paid by the hour), the number is dismally low- especially considering the cost of being gone from family and friends.
It’s even worse for a trucking owner operator.
I’ve been getting informed about MK for a while now and some of the ranting just strikes me funny coming from my trucking background. You want to talk about someone getting scammed? Investigate the lease purchase programs offered by most trucking companies.
IMO, women who fall hook, line, and sinker for the MK trap (and I’m not saying MK IS a trap- just types faster than saying “if you wind up drowning in product and no sales”) did it to themselves. Yes, they seem to promote this path, but it takes a sucker to go down it for themselves.
I do definitely like the products. A lot. And to those who wine that the mark up is ridiculous, I’d have to agree with those others who mention that the mark up on EVERYTHING YOU BUY is ridiculous. That’s called business. It’s the American way (and I say that as a die hard capitalist and fan of financial success).
My suggestion to those considering starting up in MK and those trying to determine if it’s a scam is to check out Dave Ramsey- the financial guy. Put .com behind his full name and you’ll get there. Get out of debt the old fashioned way- by cutting your expenses and paying it off. And don’t let anything put you back into it- not even the lure of inventory.
I didn’t read through all the comments but through several of them at the start- I did not read through this most recent Dave vs. Blessed stuff. It seems most people are vehemently pro or vehemently anti Mary Kay. I’m in the middle.
I did join up as a consultant because, after trying their skin care products and absolutely loving them, I decided I’d have been dollars ahead to have just bought the $115 kit (kit plus tax and shipping) and $200 (wholesale price add in tax and shipping) of products compared to the $200 I spent on not quite everything I wanted to try but enough to get me hooked.
So, here I am facing the MK math.
There is NOT a minimum $600 purchase. You have to order/purchase $200 wholesale in products each year to maintain your consultant status. If you want to buy less than $200 wholesale, unless you’ve made a $200 purchase in the past 3 months you’ll have to pay retail price.
When you sign up they hit you up for a few different types of product packages- $600 gets you $100 (retail) in free products plus, if you order in the 1st 15 days you get a special make up compact (filled in) that’s “specially” designed for your coloring. How special can that be?
Anyway, the packages go from $600 to $3,600. If you buy the package within your first 3 months (and it’s your first product purchase after your startup kit), your director will come to your home and give a Business Debut party for you- you invite every person you’ve ever known or heard of, and she goes over the MK product line and you just sit and look pretty- easy enough.
And there’s the tax issue. MK taxes their consultants on the retail price. I have lots of tax questions because if I purchase (as a consultant) direct from MK, I shouldn’t be paying sales tax because A) I’m a reseller and B) I’m buying over state lines. But that’s another long discussion- I’m willing to deal with MK’s taxation because I understand that they don’t know for sure that you’re reselling the product- the state lines still bothers me, though. MK pays the sales tax to your state so you don’t have to track that (keep in mind- I just started so I’m not sure how that works yet- that should be the case if they collect it).
Here’s the catch on the packages- taking into account taxes and the “total package price.” The math doesn’t add up right.
Just taking the $600 package… I was told that the total price for the package is $900. If you’re paying tax on the retail for $600 (which is $1200) plus the retail for your “free” products (which is $100) plus the retail on your make up kit- if you get it (which is $113.50- and that doesn’t add up quite right just for that total which bothers me- I must be missing a lip stick or something- I only got $100.50). Your tax is being paid on $1413.50. My tax rate is 7%. That should be $98.95 in sales tax. Add $8.75 for shipping (they say shipping is the same whether you buy one product or 1000).
$600 + $98.95 + $8.75 = $707.70
not quite $900
Even if you wind up BUYING your supposedly free products:
$600 + $50 ($100 in free product retail price) + $56.75 (wholesale price of the make up kit- giving them the benefit of the doubt that that extra $13 retail I can’t account for is really there) + $98.95 + 8.75 = $814.45.
Still not quite $900.
After talking with my director about this price discrepancy, she explained that the total package price also includes samples. But (going with the math in my first paragraph) $192.30 seems like an awful lot of samples considering that the startup kit comes with samples.
I’m not so appalled that MK doesn’t share records on what their consultants sell. If MK charges sales tax up front and then I, as a consultant, charge my customers sales tax in order to recoup what I paid MK, then they have no way to be certain that I actually resold the product. I’m sure they keep records of these things, but, with all the pressure people talk about to look like your selling, MK can’t be sure these numbers are accurate (since they depend on providing your director a weekly productivity sheet- whatever it’s called).
I’ve been self employed for 13 years so running the numbers, talking taxes and thinking it through is more natural to me than I imagine it is for the average MK recruit.
If I want to do a business debut, I think I’ll save myself the cash and go through the info myself. It won’t be as polished and I won’t get the perks and the power start and all that, but it’s far more sensible for me to step away from the hype and make a safer start at it. I don’t have $900 budgeted for a business start up right now.
That reminds me of another thing that bothered me. They definitely suggest that you borrow money to stock product- get a loan, use a credit card, etc. My director was at least reasonable enough to insist that you pay the loan/credit card off asap. Regardless, I have a real issue with going into debt over that. We have no storefront here. Inventory isn’t the worst idea in the world, but inventory you can’t afford and haven’t budgeted for and don’t have reserves in place to cover is not a great idea.
I told my director that I have a problem going into debt to buy product. She said it’s an investment. Bah!
Taking money you HAVE and investing it in something is an investment. Taking money you DON’T have an investing it is debt. Bad, bad idea.
Disclaimer: I’ve done the math several times but not for this comment- this comment may have a typo and may be off by a few bucks here and there due to my laziness but the concept is correct. I would hope that any woman considering MK would do this math. The business debut is neat, but it’s not the end of the world if you don’t do it.
OMG! Blessed, you are back full force. I really enjoyed that rant. I really did. I wish you could remember your password. Dave’s site is not nearly as interesting since you aren’t there.
Dave,
I’ve not posted on your blog lately because I lost the log-in and password I used to set up my account. I even had a neat icon for my log-in. Oh well, it goes to show, there is such a thing as password overload. Considering all the passwords I juggle for various systems, it’s no surprise this one just fell through the cracks.
From what I gather you and your wife have been associated with the “dream” for a few years now (I’m not sure). It would seem to me most would cultivate at least some doubt by now, at least those with the ability to think objectively, those blessed with a healthy dose of skepticism re reportedly injurious pursuits. It’s difficult to gauge the depth & accuracy of my perceptiveness through the peephole provided by typed characters on a blog. That said, though, I’ve got to admit I pegged you as being a very thoughtful person. I doubt I’m wrong.
My bet is there’s something else here. I’m wondering if your dedication to management of a blog about the Mary Kay Cosmetics opportunity is 100 percent about exploring whether Mary Kay Cosmetics is “hot or not.” There’s something else, I suspect. I’m wondering if your advocacy for the MK MLM is as undivided as some may think. You’ve vacillated (more so recently) from one portraying the MK MLM as a wonderful opportunity for any women willing to “do it right,” to one willing to acknowledge the risk, the danger, involved in MK and MLMs generally. Perhaps I’ve misread your position re MK; I’m confident you’ll let me know.
My point, however, is acknowledgment of what may be your accompanying motivation for maintaining your MK blog. You seem to take exception to the presentations of pinktruth.com. My guess is you’re particularly bothered by the editing constraints of the discussions on PT. My guess is you’d like to see a more open debate. In fact, I’d guess, you find it particularly loathsome that any blog could present itself as an outlet for discussion of any topic and not allow a free flow of thoughts and opinions. My guess is this is something that irks you as much as any personal need to promote the MK opportunity. You passionately dislike any forum promoting “truth” which simultaneously disallows a complete range of opinions. Further, my guess is pinktruth.com could be discussing the quality of one toothpaste over another and you’d still be as dismissive if it didn’t allow posting of all opinions. Your motivation, at least in part I surmise, stems from the disdain you feel toward an outlet of information which takes a decidedly one-sided view about a subject. Am I anywhere close? Is your revulsion over the lack of a free flow of ideas something that (at least in part) motivates you? Again, I’ve little doubt you’ll correct me if I’m wrong.
In a perfect world I could perhaps be standing next to you protesting with you. In a perfect world, though, there would be no need for a polished, tenacious, continuos reply to the abuse of women so effectively promulgated by the Mary Kay Cosmetics Corporation. In a perfect world MKC & its minions wouldn’t be permitted to abuse women and their families simply because they’re a business (and woo be us if we should begin to promote too much regulation of business).
The balance of the free market and reasonable regulation has been way off kilter in recent years. Have you taken a look at your 401K recently? Perhaps a new administration will grow a pair and allow the FTC to pen some (and enact) reasonable regulation which does more to guard the interests of unsuspecting women and their families. The little I’ve read of the most recent revised proposed business opportunity rule does little to give me hope in this regard.
So long as MKC and its minions may continue to promote the “opportunity” as something which will allow women to work at home only a few hours per week and earn an executive income; to fulfill God’s plans for them; to achieve all their dreams if only they “beelieve…” Well, there will continue to be a need for the balance provided by places of refuge like pinktruth.com. There will continue to be a need for a counter to the polished confidence scam sold by Mary Kay Cosmetics. There will continue to be a voice yelling daily, through a bullhorn, a reply to the trite yet harmful machinations peddled by this seductive predator.
Can ya hear that voice Dave? Can you hear the repeated proclamations? Can you hear pinktruth.com’s daily reply to the polished scam peddled by marykay.com and its minions?
Listen…
___
“BULL SHIT!”
___
“BULL SHIT!”
___
“BULL SHIT!”
___
Now listen to me applauding! Can ya see me? I’m standing, clapping, shaking my head “YES”! and applauding. And that noise you hear in the background, that’s a vast multitude of women and their families across the globe cheering with me.
The last thing this wonderful outlet of information needs is the fog induced blather of MKC or K-bots babbling about the power of dreams and reaching God’s goals through creative credit card acquisition. Oh Please!
I salute pinktruth.com and the mission it fulfills. More and more people are learning the truth about the cult-like entity that is Mary Kay Cosmetics. More and more people are avoiding the pain of Mary Kay Cosmetics thanks to outlets like pinktruth.com.
Keep it up pinktruth.com!
And Dave, I too hope you and your family are well.
Blessed
Blessed,
I’ll take my naiveté over your ignoring facts any day.
Yes, a small part of my purpose was to allow people to read Pink Truth without going to Pink Truth.
And, yes, if that was my only reason for doing so, it would have doubtless stood a chance of being copyright infringement (assuming that Tracy could… and more importantly did… copyright the entire site… you and I both know that this is impossible)
However, you ignore the far more important facts of this fascinating (sarcasm intended) story.
I know you will completely ignore what I am about to say, so I am saying this to Sean and his other readers (not that I think they particularly care either!).
1. Everything that I have posted from Pink Truth was for the purpose of criticism. With the exception of 1 (one) time, I always added my own commentary to the work – which was (you guessed it) always critical.
2. The “copyright” infringement that Tracy (ha) ‘threatened’ me with was not for the solitary time that I posted a screenshot.
Your CNN example is spot on. If, and that is a very BIG if, you were comparing apples to apples – you are not – you might have had a point.
P.S. I have not heard from you in a while, I genuinely hope all is well with you and your family.
Thank you for your encouragement! Not sure if this fight is really THAT important.
I am just a guy trying to expose the lies of one website, promote conversation about a company and allow for anyone that has an opinion (or relevant factual information) to express it in one place. All while putting up with one particular loud-mouth that thinks people like obnoxious!!
Well, I’m not up on the latest David vs. PinkTruth.Org intellectual property controversy, and I’m certainly not going to pretend he is not a Kaybot apologist pretending to be fair and balanced… Even if he does love his dog (a pit bull with MK lipstick, perhaps) and promote his wife’s business.
However, PinkTruth.org sending him a cease & desist for posting screen shots seems really lame and more than a little hypocritical. After all, PinkTruth.org is a website whose sole purpose is to talk about (and rail against) another organization. I’m sure they’ve done their share of image posting – and maybe been subject to some threats of their own. I would think that Tracy Coenen would be a champion of open communication and free speech – which includes taking some hits from her own detractors.
The charge that David’s free blogspot site could somehow diminish PT traffic via daily screen shots is ludicrous. If anything, he’d send them hits.
David: Time to run with the big dogs and upgrade to a self-hosted blog with your very own domain name. Maybe someone can recommend a hosting company with the backbone to not cave at the first cease & desist or DMCA warning.
I believe Yahoo! will take down disputed content temporarily, but will reinstate it if no lawsuit is filed. Stand up for your right to make fun of those who make fun of Mary Kay!!!
What an incredible string! I wish I’d seen it sooner.
I see I’m not the only one who has concluded David is a “consummate shill ” and is occasionally, perhaps purposely, “naive.” In his defense, I can say I believe (from what one can gather through blog exchanges) Dave is a rather nice fellow who strongly advocates for his wife and loves his dog.
I’m a bit taken aback, though, when I just happened to look at his most recent example of naivete. Dave actually took a screen shot of another web site’s proprietary content (pinktruth.com), posted it on his blog and suggested to readers they should stop visiting pinktruth.com and simply see pinktruth.com content on his site through Dave’s daily acquired screen shots.
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Wait. It gets better.
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After Dave received notice he should stop posting the proprietary content of pinktruth.com on his blog, he (at least for now) complied but has published a recent article describing the matter as “ Pink Truth’s Outrageous Claim of Copyright Infringement” on his blog. I’m looking forward to seeing what an attorney has to say to ya, Dave, about this matter. Your decision to cease and desist, during your consultation with counsel, is (I believe) wise.
Hey, you could make this real interesting. Why not go to CNN.com, get screen shots of their content, and then post it on your blog, daily (just like you proposed doing with pinktruth.com). Then suggest to your readers they should stop visiting CNN.com and just simply see all their daily content (CNN’s) on your blog?
Interesting stuff!
Erin,
Interesting.
Correct me if I am wrong here. It seems that you are suggesting that Mary Kay is saying one thing but, thanks to their (relatively) detached relationship with their directors, allowing another thing. Is that correct?
But how is it that you are using basically the same technique to make that accusation? The only difference is that instead of “uncontrollable directors”, you use simple prestidigitation to make one thing (sales behavior training) to appear to be the same as another thing (illegal business practices).
Does Mary Kay allow (even invite) its directors to train other directors? Yes absolutely.
Do they offer training on how to overcome objections, fears and concerns to make sure that a consultant purchases a level of inventory that the director feels would be best for them? I would guess (because I haven’t been there myself) that this is also absolutely true.
Is the biggest package always the best? Absolutely not.
Can some people abuse this training and use the same techniques they just learned to manipulate women into buying ridiculous and unnecessary amounts of inventory? Without a doubt.
Should Mary Kay do more to “curb” this from happening? That is the current subject of conversation on our blog Balanced Mary Kay
But does allowing its sales directors to teach certain sales methods (that may seem unsavory to some) really qualify as creating an environment where consumers are misled into thinking that inventory is required?
Consider the difference between the following to approaches.
You should really buy $xxx of inventory. This is absolutely the best thing for you… (on and on… absolutely gushing about the benefits of having that much inventory.
VS.
You have to buy $xxx of inventory. If you don’t buy this much, you can’t sell Mary Kay.
**
For both Michael and Erin,
To be perfectly honest with you, the most “convincing” pitch that I have ever given into, and many times, almost given into, is the one that separates the “sales” person from the company he/she is representing.
It usually goes something like, “Listen, don’t tell anyone I told you this, because if the company finds out, I will be in big trouble… The real “secret” to this business is buying $10,000 of ‘xyz’. They want you to do it the hard way, and to be honest, you will never succeed if you do it that way! Trust me, the only way to make it with this company is to start BIG”
Consider all the “ads” you see on Pink Truth. Most of them start with, “Don’t listen to your upline” and end with “give me your money”!!
I don’t know how widespread the mantra “Don’t listen to the company when they say that you are only required to purchase this much” is. I don’t know if it goes “all the way to the top”. But I suspect that you will need more than, “they allow their directors to train other directors ‘how to verbally and nonverbally influence consultants’” to prove that Mary Kay (directly or indirectly) encourages consultants to represent that large inventory packages are mandatory.